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hJc: A translucent, dusty gold powder ([info]yonmei) wrote in [info]bfistd,
@ 2006-06-07 11:04:00


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Current mood: cranky

Doug Bryan says he can't be "autocratic" with LJ Abuse
On Monday three women went to SixApart's office in San Francisco for a "nurse-in" and were invited in to talk with Doug Bryan and Ginger Someone. Doug seems to be claiming that the problem is that he can't be "autocratic" with LJ Abuse volunteers:

I basically reiterated everything Carrie has already told Doug. I said that I think he should just tell the Live Journal Abuse team that breastfeeding icons are ok, period, end of story, as long as the baby is latched on. That is pretty clear cut. It's hard to know exactly what he is saying when he talks, but basically he said that he doesn't want to be "autocratic" with the abuse team members. He went on about how they are a volunteer staff and how they would have to hire 4-6 full time employees to replace them. He said the only person he can be "autocratic" ... with is Denise. link

If true, this doesn't speak well for Doug's ability as a manager.

Using volunteer labour is cheaper. Volunteers don't have to be paid. If that's the only reason an organisation is using volunteer labour, the organisation needs to take a long hard look at what it's using volunteer labour for.

Livejournal needs a police force. Any big community does. And in my opinion, even a bad police force can be better than none at all. I think LJ Abuse is a bad police force, but it's better than nothing.

What kind of police force it needs depends on the nature of the community. A science-fiction convention generally does just fine with volunteer security and clearly explained rules: and in many ways, livejournal used to be run very like a science-fiction convention. But it's not: it's a corporately-owned online community running on corporate servers... policed by volunteers who are, according to Doug Bryan, not under SixApart's control. That's a bad police force, and Doug's toleration of that because he doesn't feel he can lay down firm rules for volunteers that they must follow, makes him a bad manager.

Of course, Doug may not have been altogether honest about this: it may be that he is blaming LJ Abuse because LJ Abuse is a convenient target for user rage, and he would rather have us blame LJ Abuse than blame Six Apart. If so, that doesn't just make him a bad manager: it makes him a bad human being.

I started out to write this comment just as a link to what-else-is-being-said, but the importance of Doug's claim has struck me in the writing of it: I'll be cross-posting this.


(Post a new comment)


[info]jexia
2006-06-07 03:12 (link)
I wonder how LJA feels about him saying this. It sounds like he is unhappy but can't do anything about it. Maybe now they KNOW that.

There's a real dilemma going on here. On one hand, LJ is now longer a cosy little thing; people expect better from a corporate-owned business than volunteers. On the other, 6A promised not to change anything major.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 03:22 (link)
We don't know what he's saying to LJ Abuse, though. Maybe what he's saying to them is "Don't worry, I was just making nice to those women, I think you're doing a fine job."

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]jexia
2006-06-07 03:28 (link)
Very true. Good point.

I like you, you're sensible :P

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[info]talula_fairie
2006-06-07 08:30 (link)
Oh god that would make me ILL.

It's too bad Ginger isn't in charge. I got the impression from her that she is WAY more understanding about the whole thing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]joy_disaster
2006-06-07 03:52 (link)
I think it is the usual "run around".

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[info]arianamama
2006-06-07 06:24 (link)
One has to wonder. If the Abuse team would quit because 6A gave a policy on breastfeeding icons WHY were they abuse team members in the first place. Was it to help out the site or to have power over their fellow users. Why would a company want volunteers who joined for the latter reason?

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[info]congogirl
2006-06-07 06:46 (link)
It doesn't make sense that they would quit over something like that. Any volunteer team has to follow certain rules anyway; being a volunteer doesn't give someone license to do whatever s/he wants.

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[info]therealdaae
2006-06-07 11:03 (link)
Exactly. I'm sure they could find new volunteers - people who'd be rejected by the current abuse team, for instance!

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[info]talula_fairie
2006-06-07 08:28 (link)
That quote is from me, and it is true. [info]peebs1701 was there as well. Because Doug is a PR rep and speaks in circles, it's hard to know exactly what he *means* when the talks. But, every time I brought up changing the way LJA works, he would say that he doens't want to be "autocratic" with them. Apparently every time there is a change in policy it has to be posted in the LJA community for 24 hours and everyone has to decide. I wasn't going to add that info because I probably shoudln't but we all know how rediculous it is that suposedly major decisions are being made by A VOULLENTEER STAFF. Doug claimed he wanted "the community to set the standards." Um, ok then.

And I know that I am not just getting confused because he used the word "autocratic" when talking about the abuse team AT LEAST three times.

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(Anonymous)
2006-06-07 09:30 (link)
I agree and though I've been "HidingMyself" (sometimes behind an anonymous comment), I have been somewhat vocal on this subject from the beginning.

If you use the membership of the abusefest community as a guide and apply it to your comment; It would mean that LJ/SA are using the opinions of 50-55 folks to represent millions of bloggers. And, somehow, the opinion of these kids outweigh the 1500+ LJers who mailed in protest and those that have been vocal, or have otherwise participated in this discussion. Sure, he and Denise may consider some of these team members "friends", but as far as I'm concerned, it demonstrates a huge misplaced priority.

(x-posted)

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[info]transgressed
2006-06-07 10:08 (link)
Doug claimed he wanted "the community to set the standards."

yikes. that's definately not good =(

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[info]talula_fairie
2006-06-07 10:20 (link)
I told him, "to be perfectly honest, the idea of those people running things makes me sick to my stomach. when I was in retail managment, if I'd had acted the way they do, I'd have been FIRED. I would NEVER treat a customer the way they do"

then he changed the subject by getting me to talk about specific incidences that I've had with LJA.

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[info]transgressed
2006-06-07 10:33 (link)
i agree, i've worked in retail before & you just don't get away with that.

hmm.. maybe trying to change the focus somewhat. those LJA people scare me.

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[info]therealdaae
2006-06-07 11:03 (link)
Hello Doug, WE ARE THE COMMUNITY TOO. Idiot.

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[info]jlbmedia
2006-06-07 08:56 (link)
It also lowers the site owner's legal liability to use a volunteer staff. They can't be held as responsible for the actions of a volunteer as they could for those of an employee in the U.S.

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[info]arianamama
2006-06-07 10:05 (link)
So is having the abuse team set the policy also something that limits the site owner's liability? That could finally be something that made some sense. Not sure I really like it but it's nice to find out real reasons why things are happening.

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[info]jlbmedia
2006-06-07 10:17 (link)
I believe so. This is what GJ's TOS says:

XVIII. VOLUNTEERS AND GreatestJournal.COM
GreatestJournal.com is largely a volunteer-run project whose primary intent is to provide high quality, community driven on-line services. To achieve this goal, GreatestJournal.com volunteers are often called upon to perform a variety of technical and non-technical tasks, including, but not limited to, programming, the creation of web-based content (HTML, BML, and other formats), graphic design, audio and/or visual content creation, technical writing, managing electronic data libraries and/or databases, technical support, reviewing, categorizing, legal assistance, archiving and/or forwarding electronic data, providing expert advice, administration, management, accounting, research, content creation, promotions, or other assignments, as needed. All volunteers are expected to be of legal age, or volunteering with the consent of a legal parent or guardian.

By accepting these Terms of Service, any GreatestJournal.com member agrees that the intellectual content created as a result of volunteer work for GreatestJournal.com constitutes a work for hire and that all intellectual property rights in said content shall vest in GreatestJournal.com at the time that it is created to the extent permitted by law. If laws prevent such vesting, the volunteer makes assignment of all such rights to GreatestJournal.com at the time of creation.

If laws prevent such assignment, the volunteer grants a perpetual world wide irrevocable license to GreatestJournal.com to use said content. If laws prevent such licensing, the volunteer agrees never to sue GreatestJournal.com for the use of said content.

The volunteer certifies that any electronic data he/she submits is his/her work and that to the best of the volunteer's knowledge, the electronic data is not claimed by another. GreatestJournal.com will provide sufficient tools, training and direction to the volunteer as necessary to accomplish mutual goals. The volunteer agrees to insure that any work provided is correct, error free and does not contain any inflammatory language, indecency or obscenities. Furthermore, if said work is found to be illegally presented, claimed, or forged, GreatestJournal.com will remove such material and, at GreatestJournal.com's discretion, seek action against the individual(s) from which the work originated.

No GreatestJournal user is required to become a volunteer to this service, and users without volunteer status are guaranteed reasonable support and attention as compared to those users that are volunteers.

Without the expressed written confirmation to the contrary, all GreatestJournal.com positions are assumed to be taken without pay or future consideration.
____________________________________________________

There is a legal term, Respondeat Superior, which means that there is vicarious liability associated with employment. An employer is only liable vicariously if the employee is liable. The TOS seems to be written to insure that volunteers are NOT employees.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ceeinjax
2006-06-07 12:01 (link)
Doug Bryan is a spineless wonder. I'm amazed he can even hold his torso upright with that missing backbone and all.

What a wuss.

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[info]honeybeasmama
2006-06-07 14:11 (link)
Perhaps he replaced it with a rod up his ass?

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[info]ceeinjax
2006-06-07 14:14 (link)
LMFAO!

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[info]pagandancer
2006-06-07 19:15 (link)
Then he should be autocratic with Denise, the one who is peddling the smarmy, dismissive emails, of which I have TWO!

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