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hJc: A translucent, dusty gold powder ([info]yonmei) wrote in [info]bfistd,
@ 2006-06-07 08:48:00


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Current mood: quixotic

Okay. What's next?
A bunch of us who wanted to do something to show SixApart how we felt, discussed, off livejournal, what we could do - what we could ask others to do - and what we wanted to ask SixApart to do. (A necessary part of any strike action is to figure out first what you're asking for...)

But my reasons when - after discussion - I finally wrote the "this is what we want" post for focussing on the breastfeeding issue were threefold:

1. Changing the patriarchal assumption that women's bodies are sexual and men's bodies are neutral is an awfully, awfully big fight, and one that I didn't think we'd win in this one battle, whereas I was quite hopeful that we could win the specific fight about breastfeeding icons.

2. There are all sorts of good reasons why everyone (even the happily childfree, which includes me) ought to support women feeling comfortable about breastfeeding in public, and why even tiny steps backwards - such as SixApart's decision that you can't have breastfeeding pics as default icons - should be opposed. (See Bohemiancoast's post quoted on Making Light.) This applies whether you normally oppose public nudity or you are an ardent campaigner for shame-free nudity for everyone - breastmilk is usually the best milk for babies, and discouragement of public breastfeeding is generally discouragement of breastfeeding, end of story.

3. Breastfeeding icons were plainly and obviously OK as default icons under the pre-May 20th version of FAQ 111 amplifying the TOS, and FAQ 111 was evidently rewritten specifically so that LJ Abuse could get away with banning breastfeeding icons. It's a nice, clear-cut case, and when campaigning, nice clear-cut cases are good.

I'm a feminist. Ultimately, I want to destroy the patriarchy. But, to avoid being a choked-up feminist, I accept that I can only try to destroy the patriarchy in small, manageable bites.

Grr'rr.

Stats for 6/6/6:
Total accounts: 10385229
... active in some way: 1854616
... that have ever updated: 6980683
... updating in last 30 days: 1196909
... updating in last 7 days: 723059
... updating in past 24 hours: 262802

Stats for 31st May (previous Tuesday):
Total accounts: 10336342
... active in some way: 1853118
... that have ever updated: 6953213
... updating in last 30 days: 1197567
... updating in last 7 days: 710839
... updating in past 24 hours: 257041

Which means that the one-day strike didn't work as far as putting a dent in the statistics went. As far as getting people to talk about the issue (unfortunately, as far as I can tell, mostly on Livejournal!) it seems to have worked pretty well.

So: what do we do next?



(Post a new comment)


[info]talula_fairie
2006-06-07 01:01 (link)
More press is a good idea, esp on the tech blog circuit.

Also, I think not renewing paid accounts. If enough people email them saying they won't renew, it might make a diff. SA is all about the $$$

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 01:12 (link)
Well, but I have a permanent account. :-(

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]talula_fairie
2006-06-07 01:14 (link)
That does put a damper on things. But not everyone does, so I think encouraging people to not renew is a good move. I honestly cannot think of much else.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jexia
2006-06-07 01:27 (link)
"I'm not going to buy the extra icons I was thinking of buying"? :P

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 03:23 (link)
Actually, the only other thing I've thought of is a permanent pattern of deleting/undeleting my journal, so that it keeps showing up with a line through it.

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[info]jexia
2006-06-07 03:27 (link)
Hmm, nod... but then will they even notice?

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 03:29 (link)
I know!

Really ... nothing one person can do will make them notice. It would take a lot of people all doing them....

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[info]jexia
2006-06-07 03:30 (link)
Depends how much of a load deletion puts on their servers. Wonder what would happen if it was coordinated?

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[info]muninnhuginn
2006-06-07 03:53 (link)
Unfortunately, if a mass synchronised deletion did have an effect, it'd potentially hurt other lj users (rather than those in "authority"), which is something I'd not want to do.

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[info]lunachele
2006-06-07 10:32 (link)
They don't actually remove your journal unless it's deleted for thirty days, at which point they purge it and it is gone forever. I guess all that happens with a temporary deletion is the journal gets removed from a directory list or something. Not much of a load.

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[info]therealdaae
2006-06-07 12:33 (link)
If they think people are actively trying to disrupt the service by putting a huge load on the servers, I'm sure they would suspend those journals and probably perma-ban the users. Anything that was done that actually did have the effect of disrupting service might well legally be a form of denial of service attack. So I definitely wouldn't discuss it in a public post!

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[info]jexia
2006-06-07 13:25 (link)
I wasn't meaning to look like I was planning it, at all! Genuine curiousity.

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[info]pickledginger
2006-06-07 18:08 (link)
*nods* I've already cancelled payment - and told them why.

Other possible talking points:
* When SixApart bought LiveJournal, they promised there would be no significant changes. Er, hello. Change here. *points*
* Religious images are among the icons that are being supressed. With a little effort, miscellaneous Madonna-loving Christians on LJ and elsewhere might be interested in joining the ... crusade. Especially as some fairly racy icons do pass LJ muster.
* The poor customer support and general bad attitude exhibited by both LJ and SA must be worth something, mustn't they?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mrs_ralph
2006-06-07 04:37 (link)
As far as I can tell certain users opposed to the strike went out of their way to nullify the effect on statistics. The only thing I can think of to do is to post as many times a day as possible for a set period and then quietly arrange for everyone to not post for a set time period. In other words, falsify the statistics in our favour. It's crazy but it might work...

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 05:35 (link)
Hee! It's a thought.

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[info]taperkat
2006-06-07 05:15 (link)
statistics make a difference.

They don't. Just letting you know.

As someone who has done the message board viral community posting for nigh on 7+ years now, Livejournal pulls way, way, way over the amount of traffic that people usually pull their ads on. Especially now when every company out there wants to get any hits for things. Look at Somethingawful.com ....

Anyway, when I was working for (insert one of 8 major record labels here) if I got 10 hits on a thread I posted on a message board it was considered a success. One went to over 2000 and I got a bonus that was 3 digits, which wasn't much except the original price to work on this project for the month was the same amount. However, when the numbers came out, we barely made 10000 posts across the internet in the month we were working, and it really showed. The 20 second commercial they put on MTV got more hits than 4000 kids' work in a month. Go figure.

And - while I am a member of CF, my LJ name is the same as my GJ name; I'm not flaming, I'm just saying maybe you all could make a difference somewhere it matters - the real world. Go out and help clean up homeless shelters, educate the public that usually couldn't know about your breastfeeding - because quite frankly I don't know much about it but because I am not willing to die to have a child I haven't bothered to learn about it, go volunteer at a homeless shelter, a low income nursery/child place; something like that. All this bither and bother about "omg we didn't make a difference" - Well, you did, but either you need to rework what you are fighting about/for, or just realize that it's only important to you guys and doesn't really matter in the real world.

Again, it's not disrespect, it's just me calmly wishing people would act more, bitch less and grow a set and speak out - in public, not the anonymous nature of the internet. And offering up some info. If you want to make a difference, either make it for something that many people believe in or find some way to.

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 05:34 (link)
And - while I am a member of CF, my LJ name is the same as my GJ name; I'm not flaming, I'm just saying maybe you all could make a difference somewhere it matters - the real world. Go out and help clean up homeless shelters, educate the public that usually couldn't know about your breastfeeding - because quite frankly I don't know much about it but because I am not willing to die to have a child I haven't bothered to learn about it, go volunteer at a homeless shelter, a low income nursery/child place; something like that.

Oh, this meme is such shit.

Listen, sweetheart, here's what I do:

For a living: I work for a non-profit equalities organisation half the week, and for an oral history project getting minority history into the records the other half.

For activism: I write letters to politicians about equality issues, compulsory IDs, asylum seekers. I have standing orders set up for Amnesty International, Sightsavers, and a charity supporting learning disabled children. I've written letters to politicians over the past year on topics ranging from the war in Iraq to the unjust treatment of asylum seekers. I've spoken at public meetings on topics ranging from the legal impact of civil partnership to the need for the LGBT community to recognize and include transgendered women.

Oh, and I boycott Nestle.

And you are getting on your high horse because in your view I ought to be doing something that "makes a difference"? What do you do?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]taperkat
2006-06-07 05:51 (link)
What do I do.. let's see...

I actively speak out against rape - I was raped when I was 18 - in fact, that is precisely the reason I will never have children. That is also why I support my local Domestic Violence Shelter since modern medicine just put me on anti depressants and never figured out the source of my ills; a wonderful woman named Amber got me out of that and I function now without them.

I foster cats (217 and counting, as well as keeping 6 of my own) via 2 non profit groups here in NC where I've lived the past 3 years, and I will be volunteering with Alley Cat Allies once I get to northern VA.

I am a college student who writes profusely and for a variety of local papers about anything that I feel like, including this. I have raised my GPA from a 2.7 (i flunked out of one college because of my rape) to a 3.4 and am applying to Catholic U and George Mason for Creative Writing in search of my MFA.

I recycle and freecycle.

I boycott Walmart and many large gas companies and shop at local chains whenever possible. I do not shop at PetCo due to their abuse of animals - my local PetSmart does not do that (I should know, I worked there for 2ish years)

I eat organically free range grown meat because my reproductive system is so messed up I have my "cycle" every other week. I do not have health insurance to get my uterus yanked out so I spend 12-15 days in a month in agonizing cramps so bad I do not eat for 3-4 days and spend most of my time in a chair, curled over. So essentially once a week per month I am a non functioning member of society.

I like long walks on the beach.... oh wait, wrong entry.

~

There is this easy to find high horse when you are on the internet - it makes your position weaker by attacking and taking it. I was merely offering suggestions for you guys. By the way, a "meme" isn't a post on your thread, a "meme" is a revolving survey like is seen on myspace and LJ.

The ultimate answer: I don't have children in an overpopulated, oversexed, overworked environment and society. My children would have many physical, emotional, and mental problems, so I am smart and do not reproduce. I have 6 furry felines that were all rescued from not having a home. I prefer cats to children, and that's the way it's going to stay.

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 06:31 (link)
Nice list. I suppose I could tell you I buy organic veg, I drink Fair Trade coffee... I walk on the beach... no, this would start getting silly, and I didn't mean this to be a competition "I do more activist things than you do!"

No, you weren't "merely offering suggestions for you guys" - you were taking for granted that people who were involved in the argument on the pro-breastfeeding side were not doing anything other than arguing with LJ Abuse. And in that, you're just plain wrong. The reason most of us got involved in this kind of protest is because we're accustomed to the idea that ordinary people, working together, can change corporate policy. We didn't get this idea out of the ether: we got it because we've done it. Some of us have been activists for longer than you've been alive - no exaggeration.

By the way, a "meme" isn't a post on your thread, a "meme" is a revolving survey like is seen on myspace and LJ.

No, a meme is a transmitted idea. Read Richard Dawkins. See Memetics. You must know about this: you said you were involved in "viral marketing".

In this context, the "meme" is the notion that's being batted around by various groups opposing the "Step Apart From Six Apart" campaign that we who are opposing SixApart's anti-breastfeeding policy are selfish because it's "just icons" or it's "just breastfeeding". (How they justify to themselves their making a great big noisy fuss over what they're claiming is such an unimportant thing is unknown.) I was plainly not using it to mean a "revolving survey", and I'm a little surprised that you'd never heard it in any other context.

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(Anonymous)
2006-06-07 06:40 (link)
I don't see anywhere where they have said all that is being done is complaining to lj abuse - you're the one making assumptions here.
Personally I can see both sides of the issue - but where the hell is the point in putting so much effort into something online when time and energy could be better spent in the 'real' world. Yes you've stated that you are into activism and all - but how many people are? why not try rally for people to take a stand and make people sit up - instead of having a fit over the internet.

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 06:43 (link)
Good God, you guys don't even read what you write yourselves, do you?

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[info]taperkat
2006-06-07 12:06 (link)
You obviously ignored what I read, so the sheer hilarity of this statement is enough for me to laugh.

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 12:44 (link)
You obviously ignored what I read

How can I tell what you read?

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[info]taperkat
2006-06-07 12:45 (link)
Er, my error. You obviously ignored what I said.

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 12:52 (link)
I paid attention to what you were saying: I understood what you were saying: I just didn't agree with what you were saying.

This is clearly a big, big issue for all the childhaters/antibreastfeeders who're flaming us, since they're investing so much time and effort into trying to silence us, which makes it kind of ironic (and kind of stupid) that one of the memes being passed around is that it's stupid of us to care so much about something so trivial.

Now, if it really was a trivial issue to all those people who have been claiming it's such a trivial issue, they certainly wouldn't be commenting over here on this community: at most, they'd be making small disgruntled posts on their own journals.

So, why do people to whom it clearly matters so much (possibly more than it does to me: I'm not spending any time tracking down livejournal opponents and flaming them) claim that it doesn't really matter at all?

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[info]taperkat
2006-06-07 12:54 (link)
The point is, I - wasn't - flaming you. I was just merely suggesting directions that are more efficient than the mere drop in the bucket that you guys are basically wasting time on. No offense intended, but it's the truth.

But that's your prerogative. You played the 1 up card immediately and that's fine - by ignoring my points, as I learned in many many debate classes, they were ceded. And I'm done with this, because I have boxes to pack and a life to move.

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 13:02 (link)
The point is, I - wasn't - flaming you.

Never said you were. You were being silly, yes, but I wouldn't describe your comments as flames. But you were joined by two anonymous flamers, whose comments I did not unscreen, and one anonymous commenter as silly as you.

I was just merely suggesting directions that are more efficient than the mere drop in the bucket that you guys are basically wasting time on.

But completely offtopic for this community, which is specifically about discussing how to change SixApart's anti-breastfeeding policies on livejournal. You really have no idea what the community members do to support breastfeeding in other ways: you just arrogantly supposed that this was all we were doing - this argument with SixApart - and that you should step in and tell us what you thought we ought to do instead of arguing with SixApart. Which makes you silly and arrogant and a little stupid, but there you go. Nobody's perfect.

Trying to claim that you won the argument because your silly and offtopic comments were ignored is a little juvenile, but what else do we expect? You're banned, by the way: you had your chance to stay on topic, and you don't even seem to know what "on topic" is.

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[info]taperkat
2006-06-07 13:03 (link)
I'm sorry you feel the need to ban me. :)

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[info]yonmei
2006-06-07 13:10 (link)
So am I.

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[info]mrs_ralph
2006-06-08 01:18 (link)
Well,gee. If freedom of speech and expression aren't important enough issues for you then maybe children suffering from malnutrition and disease thanks to big business pushing formula on mothers who cannot afford to keep buying it or maintain proper cleanliness of the formula feeding equipment is a worthy issue for you. All over the world, every single day babies are getting sick and even dying thanks to people stigmatising breastfeeding.

Six Apart has taken an unreasonable stand and are allowing an indefesible action on their part stand. Everyday I see hundreds of icons more offensive than the simple breastfeeding icons and anyone who can find and areola on a 100 x 100 picture of baby latched onto a breast has way too much time on their hands.

Right now barren little me is spamming my own journal and waiting for the next call to strike. Paternalism must stop. If we are going to remove icons that offend people then ones that show women with their hair, eyes, faces, hands, arms, legs or feet uncovered as well as any with furniture with suggestively curvey legs would have to be pulled. All of those things have been deemed 'offensive' by someone somewhere down the line.

PS World-wide the birthrates have dropped significantly BTW so the whole 'overcrowded world' thing is not really going to be an issue in about a generation. Don't the babies who are being born deserve the best start they can get?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

I have a question...
[info]project122
2006-06-07 16:13 (link)
Why is breastfeeding so important that you have to obsess over what everyone else does?

I think you just have to accept that breast feediing does offend some people. I'm sure some of those on your side would be enraged just to see a formula icon. I say drop it and move on with your life and your livejournal. It's just a website. I'm not allowed to display someone ejaculating, pissing, or even have certain words in my icon, you can live without putting your boobies all over.

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Re: I have a question...
[info]yonmei
2006-12-14 09:40 (link)
I never noticed this comment before (six months agone, too late) but I dropped past this post to delete some spam.

I'd forgotten exactly how bizarre it was to try arguing this issue with people like [info]project122 who Just Didn't Get It.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


 

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